I think I have figured out the basic difference in conservative and liberal mindsets at the far reaches of civilization. Most of us are sane and reasonable people with little deep seated insecurities that we try not to let rule our brain. Most of us are willing to try compromises. But we do have deeply ingrained fears.
Conservatives fear that liberals will get that 'coddle the world' thing going so strong that liberals would be willing to have us all living on a commune with vague morality and therefore stifle progress of all types. There would be no incentive as all money earned from development of new businesses and new ideas would be distributed evenly to the masses regardless of effort. We would drown in the laziness of the free ride as liberals insist on saving everyone and refuse to defend themselves with weapons.
Liberals fear that conservatives will get that 'don't trust anyone different' thing going so strongly that conservatives will put us all be under some vague conservative standard that measures our patriotism and loyalty within narrow definitions, and therefore, all liberals will have freedom of speech or privacy or other personal freedoms slowly taken away. If we don't fit the perfect standard we would be watched closely on every decision that we make. Rebellious intellectuals would be sent to the country for an improved work ethic as happened in China.
Yeah, probably an oversimplification...but it makes sense to me.
I really think that we both have the country's best interests at heart and if the shouting stopped, we could walk down a middle road. With compromise, yes, with back-stepping and correcting, yes, but also with progress.
I just don't understand how conservatives have been so up in arms about health care reform and didn't have much to say about invading Iraq.
ReplyDeleteRemember the book Clan of the Cave Bear? (Not the movie, gawd that was awful.) I think as a species we each have more or less of both types of brain that existed in two homosapien types that lived on the earth at the same time before merging into one type. One type could pass on knowledge and instinct and knew things without being taught but couldn't change much. The second type had to learn everything anew but had critical thinking skills and surpassed the first type because they could adapt.
"...all liberals will have freedom of speech or privacy or other personal freedoms slowly taken away."
ReplyDeleteI think you have this in the wrong place. This appears to be what's happening now with the liberals/socialists/progressives in power.
I just want to get back to following what is said in the Constitution without all the spin on it. I'm tired of all the free handouts and spreading the wealth. If you are able to work, then do it but then that's hard to do when there's no jobs and those that creat them are taxed to death.
To me, it's all about whether we want the government to control us and run our lives , or whether we want small govt. involvement. The way I look at government is that they do a POOR job of everything they have been in charge of. Look at the Post Office, Social Security, Medicare, Census, NASA, etc. etc. etc...... Now they are in charge of higher education. I cannot imagine our government --no matter which party is in charge-- doing a good job of managing our healthcare. GADS!!!! Pretty soon---if things keep going like they are now, the government will tell us how many pieces of toilet paper we can use.
ReplyDeleteWonder what happened to the fact that people work hard and live on the money they have and never 'expect' handouts from anyone else. Our forefathers did that. Now--we seem to be a country who feels 'entitled' to the good life --without earning it. Let's just redistribute the wealth... I don't think so!
I do agree that some changes need to be made in our healthcare. That could have been done without all of the corruptness (buying votes, underhanded way of doing things, not following the Constitution, etc.) in our Congress and White House.
Both political parties have been and are CORRUPT. We desperately --as a country--need to change to term limits in Washington DC. I think that most people don't know (or care) what is happening in Washington --but NOW, people are beginning to wake up and realize how dishonest they are being.
Just my thoughts from the 'other' side, Tabor. I have always been an Independent --and have voted both Dem and Rep... BUT--with all that is happening now, I find myself becoming more and more conservative. Obama ran promising change.. WELL--change is what we are getting. I'm just not sure people knew then that his idea of change was making us become a Socialist country instead of a Capitalist country.
Hugs,
Betsy
My fear is that it wont be others' fears of beliefs that will sink us, but sheer lack of competence and overestimating our own knowledge and/or abilities.
ReplyDeleteRichard, this is what I 'think' liberals are afraid of. Your comment that conservatives also feel freedoms being taken away shows how similar we really are.
ReplyDeleteYou did a very good job of explaining the situation, I congratulate you for being able to capture such a complicated issue into a few understandable words.
ReplyDeleteI suppose I'm the odd one out on this situation. My husband and I have both worked our entire lives and are now in retirement. Almost every dime of our retirement income is related to the federal government. All of our healthcare is from the federal government. The government does a very good job running the healthcare we have.
My husband is retired military, and retired railroad. Our healthcare comes from the federal government, provided all active military and retirees.
My husband's retired military income plus his railroad retirement which has a federal government mix in it, makes up the bulk of our retirement income.
We are very pleased with what the federal government has provided us in our retirement years.
I find most conservatives totally overlook one segment of our society. They immediately jump from people like themselves to the lazy, drug addicted part of our society.
I see another group between. The people in our society working low paying, minimum wage jobs, who work 40 hours a week, sometimes two jobs and still cannot afford the cost of healthcare.
I worked at a university that offered healthcare to it's employees but the price was still out of reach for the housekeeping staff and the groundskeepers.
Definitely vague. And are you having fun yet far away and down there?
ReplyDeleteMakes sense to me too!
ReplyDeleteI'm much like Betsy, an Independent.
ReplyDeleteWe have no one to blame but ourselves. Some of my friends that yell the loudest, hardly ever vote. Some of my friends that advocated change, want it to happen to someone else. and the debate goes on,
What to do?
One thing is for sure. The shouting is unhelpful. It only polarizes both groups, making reasonable discourse impossible. And no, Obama is not a socialist; that's the type of rhetoric that lends "the hysterical tone of farcical McCarthyism" to the discussion. (Quote taken from: http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/03/13/AR2009031301899.html)
ReplyDeleteHello Tabor, I think you already know I lean pretty far to the left, but I brought you a fun video link from collegehumor.com
ReplyDeleteIt's called "If the Other Party Wins" and the first time I saw it, I laughed until I cried.
http://www.collegehumor.com/video:1888086
Wow.
ReplyDeleteInterestingly enough, when I go to Washington to visit our Congressmen and women, I actually see some really good dialog happening about some really important things.
And then I watch it get all spun out of context and devolve into name calling and veiled threats.
It reminds me of watching a perfectly normal person mess up their hair and don outlandish garb to go perform on a stage.
What a shame, as dialog and true understanding of different perspectives is, in my opinion, the only way we can ever figure out the best next steps forward together.
What I want to get back to is listening to each other. To remembering that we are creating a country and a future together. To really understanding each others points of view - instead of constant lack of patience, lack of respect, over the top satire and just plain meanness.
When I have attempted to engage in dialog around why people have the view point that they have, the conversations turn into name calling and yelling (comments like "I can't believe you have been taken in by those idiots!"). You know, no one ever asks me why I think the way I do, or why I believe what I believe, or what I think the logical conclusion might be of one or another approach to our societal issues.
With all that said, and knowing that some of my most favorite people are strongly conservative, I want to share two perspectives on what possibly divides us.
First, when I was young, I was taught that Conservatives are in support of BIG BUSINESS. That Liberals are in support of PEOPLE. There is much that I think is true even today about that difference in view.
Second; however, I have a more personal observation to share. Conservatives of my acquaintance seem to have absolutely no problem telling OTHER people what they should be doing. Whereas, liberals of my acquaintance are more likely to just DO the things that they believe should be done.
Now, that may be a completely erroneous observation, and I know that it is certainly colored by the people that I know - a pretty tiny subset of the population (if it is even large enough to be called THAT!).
I think that a return to civility may someday be required if we are ever to figure this out. I wonder if that can happen when we live in a popularity contest society with little thinking, and barely and dialog.
Thank you for considering. I too believe that we all have the best interests of the country at heart. Too bad we can't seem to talk about it.
I don't often comment more then once on a single post but this one has had me thinking for a couple of days.
ReplyDeleteThe more I have thought about it the more I have come to the conclusion that we "The People" have let ourselves be lead into the mess we are now in. We have let ourselves be polarized into group thinking instead of individual thinking. Once you get into group thinking it's easy to always try to demonize someone in the other group whether it be a political party, church, sports team, and on and on and on. We have literally got so lazy that we now let someone else do the thinking for us. So the first thing we all need to do is start thinking for ourselves again and right along with that, we have to really start listening to the other point of view. I see a lot of people starting to think for themselves in the last year and they are being demonized as troublemakers, radicals, mobs, racists, etc. by the media/political parties who wants to continue controlling the way we think.
We need to get CREDITABILITY back into the government and also back into individuals. As long as we let people tell us what we want to hear and how we need to think instead of the truth, we won't go far in getting back to common ground on things.
We need to get RESPONSIBILTY back into our way of thinking. If I do something wrong, then I am the one responsible, not society or my parents for the way they raised me and we have to hold people/organizations responsible for their actions.
And the last thing we need to do is get back CIVILITY. Our society has turned into a self-centered and extremely rude one. Our culture HAS to get back to one where you can disagree with someone but still have RESPECT for them and defend their right to give their point of view.
If we can't get back the things I listed, then I believe we as a nation will continue on the downhill slope we are on. None of these things will happen overnight but we have to start now because it's a long road back.
Tabor, I love what you tried to do here. As you can see from the responses, the passion for being correct runs too deep. I too believe the day of compromise will keep us free and keep us the greatest country on the planet.
ReplyDeleteCompromise is the best solution. It's fair and flexible and works with both sides.
ReplyDelete